graphical object misalignment and difference between edit and run time

[tpjctrl]

This issue is really making work hard and it's the one thing I personally hate about WinCC OA (I've never had an issue with this in other SCADA packages, so it comes as a surprise):

- When aligning graphical objects in the GEDI I'm constantly running into problems with position coordinates. Very often when I modify the X/Y to line up to objects, they still look misaligned even though the corresponding X or Y are identical. For example I can have two text fields with the X set to 200, but if you look at them at 100% zoom they don't line up properly (sometimes when I go to 200-300% zoom they look fine, but look wrong again in 100% zoom, or vice versa). If I then select them and pick "Align to left" I can see one object moving slightly, yet the coordinates still stay the same.

- Another thing which often happens is coordinates not changing to the typed in value, but to a value 1 or 2 pixel larger, for example I can type in 30 in the X field for position and it changes to 32, if I type 30 again, it changes to 31, if I type 30 again, it finally changes to 30.

- Often when aligning objects using the align buttons on the top (Align left, right, center etc.) they still come out misaligned and the only way to fix that is to move them about to random positions and apply the same align button. I've often had several pairs of objects, all looking the same, but for some reason some pairs align properly, yet others come out misaligned

- There seems to be a big difference between how the object alignment looks like in edit mode and how it comes out in run time. Often I have everything aligned in edit mode, yet when I run simulation, things look misaligned and wonky. I then have to go back to edit mode and purposely misalign objects only to get the looking good in run time

Curious if anyone else is experiencing any of the above? if so, any ideas on how to fix this, cause it really is adding extra hours to even the simplest tasks.

Regards,
Tom

[kilianvp]

Yes its a known Problem.

- If you build Panels stay at 100% or use the zoom you later will use.
- For aligning Objects it matters in which Order you selcted them.

Regards
Kilian

[tpjctrl]

Ah someone who's experiencing this as well it seems like the ability to zoom in run time is breaking alignment pretty badly. Also sometimes it seems like you need half pixels to get things aligned, but of course that is not available so the objects sort of snap into misalignment. There's other issues when resizing graphical objects as well, sometimes that moves an object into a slightly different X/Y position for no apparent reason. Overall it's just hard work and I'm very surprised this has not been fixed yet, it's basic functionality which everyone uses for design work and it looks bad in front of clients as it seems like you can't even be bothered to line up things nicely.

As for aligning with the buttons I'm aware that the alignment is done based on the object which was first clicked. That is typically the norm in other SCADA packages, but I've never had so many issues with misaligned objects that actually look aligned looking at the coordinates.

Regards,
Tom

[mkoller]

Could you send us a test panel which shows this problem, please.
Also, which version are you on ?
Internally objects store the coordinates as floating point values, in addition they might also have a transformation matrix applied after they were scaled, rotated or moved. All this might lead to some pixel values being one off compared to other objects, but to clearly find out what goes on and where there is room for improvement or a bug to be fixed, we'd need a test case and instructions how to reproduce your issue.

[tpjctrl]

Hi Martin,

it's hard to send screenshots as some misalignement happens when objects are moved and I haven't got time to record clips showing the issue.

Things to try quickly on your end:

- Create a text object, set the X/Y size variables to for example 60 / 18 by typing them in the properties box. Sometimes 60 changes to 61, sometimes it goes in and is fine. If you get both values in, move the object to another location, then check the X / Y size again, most likely it will change by 1/2 pixels. Similar thing happens when you align the text object to another object ie. sizes change by 1/2 pixels

- Another test to try is to set one object in a specific X/Y position, then select this object and any other object on the panel and click align centers. Most likely the fist object, with the manually set X/Y position will shift slightly as well as the two objects are aligned. If you check X/Y coordinates, they might stay the same, or might change by 1/2.

- create two identical rectangles, size for example 60/100, position the first at 100/100, move the second rectangle and "snap" it to the right top corner of the first rectangle. This should then align both side by side ie. positions of the first should be 100/100 and the second 160/100, but often it is not and shows 159/100 or 159/101.

Using version 3.15, patch 4.

Also, is it possible to somehow set the X/Y of a group? at this point grouping objects doesn't really make much sense as the grouped element cannot be positioned easily using coordinates and "snapping" to things typically creates 1/2 pixel offset and I need to manually re-position each element inside the group which takes a lot of time on busy panels.

Another bug which I've found is changing Layer settings on several selected objects. Every time when I select various different types of objects on a panel and change the Layer property to affect all, nothing happens, it's as if the Layer change is ignored. I have then to pick all objects of a certain type (for example only text objects) and only then changing the Layer affects all selected objects of the same type. This is again, a waste of time on busy panels.

Regards,
Tom

[mkoller]

I was not expecting a screenshot but a real panel file plus a description what to do to see the problem.
There are so many ways and possibilities one can influence the behavior that it is simply not that simple as you describe to reproduce it.
E.g. "Create a text object," => what is a text object in your case ? Is it a Primitive Text ? is it a single line Text field, is it a (multi line) Text Edit ?
What are the settings ? (e.g. a primitive text newly created by a single click can not be changed in size since it adapts the size to the content).
What did you do before with the objects (e.g. were they already transformed ?) What is the gedi zoom level ? ...

For the alignment example: what you describe should simply not be possible since when aligning shapes, all shapes _except_ the first one is changed. From looking briefly into the code, the first shape should therefore never change anything.
or is "object" in your example not a simple shape but e.g. a PanelRef ? (another reason why I was asking for a panel)

"is it possible to somehow set the X/Y of a group?" no. The group itself is just a logical container and does not define the position.
This is different to a PanelRef, however.

Layers: Separate shapes (not PanelRefs) work. Just tested that with a circle, a rectangle, a primitive Text.
I would need more details how you hit the problem (maybe a test panel ?).

[tpjctrl]

Hi Martin,

I will put together a small test panel, can you provide an email address where this can me sent?

Regards,
Tom

[mkoller]

can you attach it here, please ?

[leoknipp]

Instead of adding the information to the ETM Portal you can also get in contact with your common WinCC OA support or submit a service request using the Siemens Industry Support portal http://support.automation.siemens.com/

More information you can find here:
https://portal.etm.at/index.php?view=it ... &Itemid=54
https://portal.etm.at/index.php?view=it ... &Itemid=54

Best Regards
Leopold Knipp
Senior Support Specialist